God: The Failed Hypothesis. How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist

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"Marshalling converging arguments from physics, astronomy, biology, and philosophy, Stenger has delivered a masterful blow in defense of reason. God: The Failed Hypothesis is a potent, readable, and well-timed assault upon religious delusion. It should be widely read."

"Darwin chased God out of his old haunts in biology, and he scurried for safety down the rabbit hole of physics. The laws and constants of the universe, we were told, are too good to be true: a set-up, carefully tuned to allow the eventual evolution of life. It needed a good physicist to show us the fallacy, and Victor Stenger lucidly does so. The faithful won't change their minds, of course (that is what faith means) but Victor Stenger drives a pack of energetic ferrets down the last major bolt hole and God is running out of refuges in which to hide. I learned an enormous amount from this splendid book."




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I hope you never die and have to face the consequences of such stupidity. God Bless!

same to you geobaby, the world is just in balance. Don't put it out of balance.
Thanks Rapid777, is good to be open to ideas to grow.

For centuries the religious have tried to subvert science into proving the existence of their gods and science eventually shows them the mistake of their religious beliefs. This is why the religious will also tried to discredit, or control, science when they finally realize this unpopular truth.

As for geobaby his kind are responsible for the majority of the violence in the world and throughout history as well. Also, like most theists they don't even know about their own religions. The concepts of heaven and hell were added as a means for the clergy to control the followers. Nothing more. There is another book on here about values and virtue without the need for a god as well. In fact, on average atheists tend to be far more moral than theists are.

I look forward to reading Stenger's book, and I agree with Foub -- particularly about morality and violence. Personally, I have no hypothesis about any deity nor do I need one. However, one must not forget that logic will not allow the proof of a negative, vis. one cannot prove that something does NOT exist. So I have difficulty with the subtitle. Because of this, atheism requires as much faith as any theism. So I think the best way to go is to have no personal need for any such nonsensical beliefs.

People, if you don't believe in God, what's the problem?? Why some of you need to read these kind of books about God? I believe in God and don't like reading about it, because is a matter of belief. Every time I see my little daughter, every time I look the sky, the stars, the incredible landscape, and when I see beauty, I know, that there is something bigger than me, you and this guy writing a book as if he was God himself, lol!!!. You need FAITH to believe in God. I can read one thousand books, still I'll need faith to believe in God. God is about believing or not, not about science. Science is always changing. What this guy is saying in this book will be obsolete in a couple of years, when scientist find another new theory, and new discoveries. The problem with these kind of guys is that they are always looking for HOW, HOW, or WHEN, about the universe, its origins, etc, but the BIG question is WHY??

Foub said.
Magister dixit.

Well said, guxt. A good saying for those who claim there is no God. ''Maybe the atheist cannot find God for the same reason a thief cannot find a policeman''. Unknown Author

Well said, guxt. A good saying for those who claim there is no God. ''Maybe the atheist cannot find God for the same reason a thief cannot find a policeman''. Unknown Author

Well said, guxt. A good saying for those who claim there is no God. ''Maybe the atheist cannot find God for the same reason a thief cannot find a policeman''. Unknown Author

“

People, if you don't believe in God, what's the problem??

”

The problem, guxt, is in those who want everyone to believe as they do, or else.

“

Why some of you need to read these kind of books about God?

”

Why do you need one that does?

“

I believe in God and don't like reading about it, because is a matter of belief.

”

This is what is called willful ignorance and it is a bad thing. What are you afraid of, the truth? Unlike you many atheists, and agnostics, HAVE read the bible, and the like, and have found them to be nothing more than wishful thinking.

“

Every time I see my little daughter, every time I look the sky, the stars, the incredible landscape, and when I see beauty, I know, that there is something bigger than me, you and this guy writing a book as if he was God himself, lol!!!.

”

Which god? And no he is not saying that he is god himself either. He is saying that the universe is totally amazing even WITHOUT a god.

“

You need FAITH to believe in God.

”

Religious faith is proof of nothing.

“

I can read one thousand books, still I'll need faith to believe in God. God is about believing or not, not about science.

”

Science gives real answers, religion gives false ones.

“

Science is always changing.

”

This also makes science stronger because it is always learning for itself. Religion is written in stone and those who dare question it put their lives in danger. This is why I see religion as the greatest evil ever created by Man.

“

What this guy is saying in this book will be obsolete in a couple of years, when scientist find another new theory, and new discoveries.

”

Its called growing and evolving. You do this or you stagnate and die.

“

The problem with these kind of guys is that they are always looking for HOW, HOW, or WHEN, about the universe, its origins, etc, but the BIG question is WHY??

”

A better question would be; WHY NOT????


@budfan

To answer your question about atheism requiring just as much faith as theism....

http://atheism.about.com/b/2004/04/28/does-atheism-require-faith.htm

Well said, guxt. A good saying for those who claim there is no God. ''Maybe the atheist cannot find God for the same reason a thief cannot find a policeman''. Unknown Author

Or it could be said that the atheism is the one who truly looked and found nothing while the theist just found it easier to believe instead.... Theism is being mentally lazy since the answer to all questions is GODDIDIT!!!!!!!!

duplicate post deleted by author

In response to guxt, I don't have a problem with your personal("personal",is an important word here) beliefs as you stated them. There is, indeed, beauty from your perspective. And personally (again) I think that science and religion look out at the same world from different perspectives, and neither is a complete view. But, (here's the rub where the word "personal" comes in) if your beliefs involve "Dominion", the control of other people, then it is no longer personal and I have a big problem with that. I have a big problem with the death and destruction affecting millions of people today from both fundamentalist camps - Muslim and Christian alike. But I think this problem is no longer about God; it's about Religion.

Scientifically trying to falsify the existence of God is akin to a person illigetimate in birth (a bastard) trying to falisify the state or fact of the father!

Scientifically trying to falsify the existence of God is akin to a person illegitimate in birth (a bastard) trying to falsify the state or fact of the father!

"And personally (again) I think that science and religion look out at the same world from different perspectives, and neither is a complete view."

Exactly!!
I do read these kind of books because I want to learn from everyone, but I don't need them to believe or not to believe in God. This guy who write can't have the truth about the universe, Sorry, but he is not that intelligent!!

"if your beliefs involve "Dominion", the control of other people, then it is no longer personal and I have a big problem with that."

Exactly, part 2, lol!!. I don't care what other people believe. Everyone has the right to believe whatever they want. This guy writing above that I'm an ignorant, is preaching atheism. I'm not preaching anything. I love science, and I love God, my God, whoever he is.



"And personally (again) I think that science and religion look out at the same world from different perspectives, and neither is a complete view."

Exactly!!
I do read these kind of books because I want to learn from everyone, but I don't need them to believe or not to believe in God. This guy who write can't have the truth about the universe, Sorry, but he is not that intelligent!!

"if your beliefs involve "Dominion", the control of other people, then it is no longer personal and I have a big problem with that."

Exactly, part 2, lol!!. I don't care what other people believe. Everyone has the right to believe whatever they want. This guy writing above that I'm an ignorant, is preaching atheism. I'm not preaching anything. I love science, and I love God, my God, whoever he is.



"The problem, guxt, is in those who want everyone to believe as they do, or else."

I agree with you. I don't want anyone to believe what I believe. Because, in my opinion, beliefs are personal.

"I believe in God and don't like reading about it, because is a matter of belief. ”

This is what is called willful ignorance and it is a bad thing. What are you afraid of, the truth? Unlike you many atheists, and agnostics, HAVE read the bible, and the like, and have found them to be nothing more than wishful thinking."

I'm not afraid of anything. Why should I be afraid? and afraid of what??? I call "wishful thinking" to these theories about the universe that last seconds until a new one come. In my opinion the universe and life in general are too vast to came with conclusions with such confidence. If there is life in other planets, and maybe more advanced than us, (I hope there is), they might be laughing at us, people who have never abandoned this solar system and we are talking as if we were travelers of the universe, lol!! We have to be more humble, this is the only thing that I have to ask to these kind of guys who write these books as if they have all figured it out.

"This is why I see religion as the greatest evil ever created by Man"

I really don't know what the greatest evil ever created by Man is, but religion is one for sure. I really hate religions, but I'm pretty sure that Mother Theresa of Calcuta was a very good religious person. And I know a lot of people who believes in God that are excellent people and I do know a lot of people who are atheist and they are excellent too.

I just watched the news on my tv, and I just saw a lot of evil. Or maybe the guy who constructed a nuclear weapon and destroyed 2 cities in Japan, killing thousands of people, maybe that is the most evil thing that Man created, or the military in my country, who killed 30.000 people because they were communist in the seventies, or the guy that I just watched on tv who raped 8 women. I really don't know what the greatest evil ever created by Man is, but there are plenty of things that fall in that category.

"Science gives real answers, religion gives false ones"

Science gives temporary answers!!! They are always changing their answers. This is not a criticism, but a call to be more humble. I celebrate that science changes, because I have changed a lot, and I like changes. I hate when people on tv show videos from the past to show that some people used to say something in the past and now they have changed, because all of us have the right to change!!!. Change is essential for any kind of growth.



@ Foub: I did not have a question about atheism. The link you referred to concerns the interpretation of evidence in order for it to have any meaning in human terms. My statement is about logic, and it is a fact that you cannot prove a negative, although mathematics is not a closed (complete) system either (Kurt Godel demonstrated that). You simply cannot prove that there is no God, therefore you must have faith in your belief that there is none. And Wittgenstein would have us throw out this argument completely because we are limited to talking about "atheism", which is merely a word.

I also have a problem here with my own statements because they are generalizations resulting from inductive reasoning. All generalizations are dangerous. <--- Including this one.

I frequently come to these publications just to look at the comments. Rarely am I disappointed. One's religious beliefs are at the core of one's self, so people react when challenged. I stopped offering such challenges many decades ago as being a fool's errand. More recently, I've begun to reconsider that decision as the dangers of the persistence of militant superstition becomes all too apparent. While the need for such a challenge becomes increasingly obvious, the subtlety with which it must be mounted has always been manifest - otherwise the reaction is violent.

"Rarely am I disappointed"

I'm dissappointed with atheists so sure about everything, "preaching" their beliefs to everybody!!! Your comment is violent too, because it implies that you are smarter than people who believes in God.

It takes as much faith to disbelieve in God as it does to believe. The difference is that many believers have had a 'religious experience'; can a non-believer have a non-religious experience? It's all mental masturbation anyway. No one can prove anything, anyway.

God is not just someone to believe in, God is a person, the origin and maintainer of everything. You find it difficult to meet with ministers of state who are only ordinary persons what to speak of meeting with the Supreme person.

For those who are intelligent enough to recognize the existence of God and who make and effort to know God and to live according to His amazing intelligence He shows the way forward.

For those who want to ignore God imagining that they actually understand this universe God will never reveal Himself, why should He? You want to believe that you are the intelligent ones, that's your choice, you are allocated a certain amount of free will according to your karma, use it as you will.

You scientific people are so amazed by this mere physical manifestation of my Lord's intelligence and energies you spend you entire lives studying and understanding your own specialized tiny portion of it. Try to imagine how amazing how amazing is God Himself who is all of this universe and much more besides.

I challenge any scientist to create a living creature out of nothing. If as you say there is no God and you scientific people understand how this existence works, then create a frog or even a "mere" rose plant, or why not get really grand and create a galaxy. Fact is: you don't understand, you never will, and you cannot create life. Quit with the wanking, get out of the primordial swamp, and get on with our purpose of the personal development of evolving into higher states of loving consciousness and God will come to you. You do not need to find Him, He already knows where you are; make Him attracted to you and He will enter your life in ways that you never imagined possible.

Quit foolin' youself, you're not in control, you can't even have a good day on demand. Cruise on up out of the useless hell that you call your life and learn how beautiful it is to join the ranks of those willing to be humble enough to accept God.

When you are ready to be humble brothers, I'll see you there.
t3

God is not just someone to believe in, God is a person, the origin and maintainer of everything. You find it difficult to meet with ministers of state who are only ordinary persons what to speak of meeting with the Supreme person.

For those who are intelligent enough to recognize the existence of God and who make and effort to know God and to live according to His amazing intelligence He shows the way forward.

For those who want to ignore God imagining that they actually understand this universe God will never reveal Himself, why should He? You want to believe that you are the intelligent ones, that's your choice, you are allocated a certain amount of free will according to your karma, use it as you will.

You scientific people are so amazed by this mere physical manifestation of my Lord's intelligence and energies you spend you entire lives studying and understanding your own specialized tiny portion of it. Try to imagine how amazing how amazing is God Himself who is all of this universe and much more besides.

I challenge any scientist to create a living creature out of nothing. If as you say there is no God and you scientific people understand how this existence works, then create a frog or even a "mere" rose plant, or why not get really grand and create a galaxy. Fact is: you don't understand, you never will, and you cannot create life. Quit with the wanking, get out of the primordial swamp, and get on with our purpose of the personal development of evolving into higher states of loving consciousness and God will come to you. You do not need to find Him, He already knows where you are; make Him attracted to you and He will enter your life in ways that you never imagined possible.

Quit foolin' youself, you're not in control, you can't even have a good day on demand. Cruise on up out of the useless hell that you call your life and learn how beautiful it is to join the ranks of those willing to be humble enough to accept God.

When you are ready to be humble brothers, I'll see you there.
t3

One more thing I should point out. When you are finished with trying to control other people whether with religion, politics, science, or even music, sport or fashion, than you're evolving. Live and let live and stop exploiting other beings for your own sensory or ego pleasure.

If science can bring you to your senses than so be it, but please permit others to exist harmlessly as they wish. It's the desire for domination that is the gateway to suffering, not science or religion or business or most other things.

Stop suffering!!!

cha
t3

Poor, t3rry. Still deluded in his beliefs. One would get the impression that you were in fact retarded.

BTW, t3rry.

“

"Human life and destiny is always endangered when prophets of whatever sort demand, 'Frage nicht, glaube!' Do not question. Believe!"

”

-Jack Forstman

@budfan

I'm not an atheists, but what is referred to as a strong Agnostic.

To T3rry: The Devil made me write this(apologies to Flip Wilson): "There was never a century nor a country that was short of experts who knew the Deity's mind and were willing to reveal it. -- Mark Twain

If there is a g*d, It (for lack of a better term) may not be as we mere mortals imagine, or even can imagine. But I do agree with you that we are not in control; if anything, we are out of control.

@ guxt

Well now let's look a your obviously emotional diatribe.

re. atheists so sure about everything

No, not really. More a matter of epistemology - what do you mean when you say "I know". Depending on how you decide what will be your epistemological approach for reaching decisions - all else will ensue. For anyone who demands certainty, I would recommend a good dose of Heisenberg (start here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle)

re. "preaching" their beliefs to everybody

I think it's possible to make the argument that the world is in serious need of some "preaching" of the value of reason based on testable evidence. Dwelling on an increasingly small planet filled with believers of incompatible superstitions, each willing to destroy everything to "prove" the primacy of their particular superstition leads only to holocaust. We've been here before. St. Bartholomew's Day and the Thirty Years War are lessons not to be forgotten.

"The exact number of fatalities is not known, but it is estimated that anywhere from ten thousand to possibly one-hundred thousand Huguenots died in the violence throughout France." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartholomew's_Day_Massacre)

And

"During the war, Germany's population was reduced by 30% on average; in the territory of Brandenburg, the losses had amounted to half, while in some areas an estimated two thirds of the population died. Germany’s male population was reduced by almost half." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War)

re. you are smarter than people who believes in God

Or those who believe in Zeus or Bael?

:)

It's not a question of smartness, more a matter of a self-imposed veil.

@Foub: I think I know what you mean with the term "strong Agnostic." And this world needs more people who are less certain about their beliefs than those who unquestioningly believe in absurdities; only those who believe in absurdities are capable of committing atrocities.

But the argument for agnosticism in this context doesn't hold up either. The term "agnostic" was coined by the 19th-century English biologist Thomas H. Huxley, and Huxley's "agnosticism" has suffered the same fate as Darwin's "evolution" by being misinterpreted, misrepresented, and misapplied. Science uses Huxley's "method" by starting with a testable hypothesis and follows reason as far as it will allow while not pretending certainty in matters that cannot be demonstrated. Whether or not God exists is not a scientifically testable hypothesis -- or as Karl Popper put it: it is not falsifiable. So, I still think the best way to go is to not consider the hypothesis to begin with. That's why I am very interested in what Stenger has to say in this book.

"I think it's possible to make the argument that the world is in serious need of some "preaching" of the value of reason based on testable evidence"

Now, you are the savior of the world!! LOL!!! Please, I'm only demanding you to be more humble. And you are not doing well in that matter!!!

We are in serious need of love, forgiveness and less greed. Greed is killing this world more than any kind of religion.

There Is No God
We don't need Science to show it This people try to convince themselves about something they do not understand even the bible warn about not to try to go into this mysteries,but they try and try and when you show the mistakes in the bible or their actions you got this is the man who is imperfect
The only thing they need to do is to check their 2000 plus history (only for the christian side)
So please believe what you want but don't try your histories on others

"So please believe what you want but don't try your histories on others"

The same I say to atheists, stop preaching your theories as if they had the absolute truth. And check the world history, and you will find that humans are not only imperfect but bad, so bad. Just see what people are doing in Irak, or what about the survivors of Hiroshima? Religions are bad, but first, people are bad.

"So please believe what you want but don't try your histories on others"

The same I say to atheists, stop preaching your theories as if they were the absolute truth. And check the world history, and you will find that human are not only imperfect but bad, so bad. Just call Irak to talk with people there, or with the survivors of Hiroshima.

"So please believe what you want but don't try your histories on others"

The same I say to atheists, stop preaching your theories as if they were the absolute truth. And check the world history, and you will find that human are not only imperfect but bad, so bad. Just call Irak to talk with people there, or with the survivors of Hiroshima.

Hi guys,

Looks like I've thrown a cat amongst the pigeons here.

I can only wish that people read books for the purpose of enlightenment, not for the purpose of propounding and reinforcing their illogical beliefs.

Anyway, I hope you all enjoy the book.

@ rapid777

Thanks for the book.

As for the comments, 'tis a matter of perspective. Looked at one way they're hilarious; alternatively, they're revealing. But always entertaining.

Thanks again.

There is a lot of nonsense in this book and it is unfair to relate this to science. Believing in God is a natural act if you apply the absolute minimum logical thinking. Creation of the universe and everything around us cannot exist without the intelligence of high conscious power. Atheists have been over the years trying to prove their ideologies but they are faced by failure. Think logically and use simple thinking process: If you believe that scattered pieces of wood would get together to make a boat (even over millions of years) then you may believe that the whole universe with all the intelligence in it is created by “Nothing”. To make something, you need certain simple skills such as knowing what you want to achieve and how the product will be used afterwards (the environment around it). Another skill is putting the needed quantities in percentages or shapes as required. In simple terms, intelligence is a must and the human being has part of this intelligence that God gave to him. Every thing in the universe is well programmed with highly intelligent programmer. http://www.harunyahya.com/

There is a lot of nonsense in this book and it is unfair to relate this to science. Believing in God is a natural act if you apply the absolute minimum logical thinking. Creation of the universe and everything around us cannot exist without the intelligence of high conscious power. Atheists have been over the years trying to prove their ideologies but they are faced by failure. Think logically and use simple thinking process: If you believe that scattered pieces of wood would get together to make a boat (even over millions of years) then you may believe that the whole universe with all the intelligence in it is created by “Nothing”. To make something, you need certain simple skills such as knowing what you want to achieve and how the product will be used afterwards (the environment around it). Another skill is putting the needed quantities in percentages or shapes as required. In simple terms, intelligence is a must and the human being has part of this intelligence that God gave to him. Every thing in the universe is well programmed with highly intelligent programmer. http://www.harunyahya.com/

There is a lot of nonsense in this book and it is unfair to relate this to science. Believing in God is a natural act if you apply the absolute minimum logical thinking. Creation of the universe and everything around us cannot exist without the intelligence of high conscious power. Atheists have been over the years trying to prove their ideologies but they are faced by failure. Think logically and use simple thinking process: If you believe that scattered pieces of wood would get together to make a boat (even over millions of years) then you may believe that the whole universe with all the intelligence in it is created by “Nothing”. To make something, you need certain simple skills such as knowing what you want to achieve and how the product will be used afterwards (the environment around it). Another skill is putting the needed quantities in percentages or shapes as required. In simple terms, intelligence is a must and the human being has part of this intelligence that God gave to him. Every thing in the universe is well programmed with highly intelligent programmer. http://www.harunyahya.com/

http://www.harunyahya.com/

There is a lot of nonsense in this book and it is unfair to relate this to science. Believing in God is a natural act if you apply the absolute minimum logical thinking. Creation of the universe and everything around us cannot exist without the intelligence of high conscious power. Atheists have been over the years trying to prove their ideologies but they are faced by failure. Think logically and use simple thinking process: If you believe that scattered pieces of wood would get together to make a boat (even over millions of years) then you may believe that the whole universe with all the intelligence in it is created by “Nothing”. To make something, you need certain simple skills such as knowing what you want to achieve and how the product will be used afterwards (the environment around it). Another skill is putting the needed quantities in percentages or shapes as required. In simple terms, intelligence is a must and the human being has part of this intelligence that God gave to him. Every thing in the universe is well programmed with highly intelligent programmer. http://www.harunyahya.com/

There is a lot of nonsense in this book and it is unfair to relate this to science. Believing in God is a natural act if you apply the absolute minimum logical thinking. Creation of the universe and everything around us cannot exist without the intelligence of high conscious power. Atheists have been over the years trying to prove their ideologies but they are faced by failure. Think logically and use simple thinking process: If you believe that scattered pieces of wood would get together to make a boat (even over millions of years) then you may believe that the whole universe with all the intelligence in it is created by “Nothing”. To make something, you need certain simple skills such as knowing what you want to achieve and how the product will be used afterwards (the environment around it). Another skill is putting the needed quantities in percentages or shapes as required. In simple terms, intelligence is a must and the human being has part of this intelligence that God gave to him. Every thing in the universe is well programmed with highly intelligent programmer. http://www.harunyahya.com/

Hi Foub old soul ...
Yes ... you are a soul with a body (not a body with a soul as some erroneously assume) and a soul is conscious. Conscious of your body/mind continuing to suffer whilst you think/imagine that you have it all together with your enormous brain, which like everything else made of matter, will be transformed in a short while. So be it.

As for personal attacks (the last resort of those with nothing of any importance to say). I may well be retarded. That is not the issue we are discussing here. We are discussing whether you scientific types have some tiny information regarding existence and have proudly extrapolated that you know plenty.

I eagerly await the discovery of a new galaxy ;^)
(nearby, so we all know it obviously just manifested ... with a little assistance from Foub)
which will be known to us as the Foub spiral. You will be remembered for what we think is a long time but which is really just a moment and after a while, a few more moments, even your galaxy will wind up transformed.

Imagine a large steel ball suspended in space, and every 100000 years it is brushed with a feather.
When that steel ball is completely worn away Foub will still be oscillating between enjoyment and suffering. Time to give up your pride and kneel with humility. Continued suffering is NOT intelligence.

By all means ask all the questions you want, whether from science, your peers, yourself, whoever/whatever but also realize the limitations of science and look "elsewhere" as well. Asking questions IS intelligence. Answering them correctly is BRILLIANCE.

The question remains: what are we here for and why are we suffering, even worse: why do we make others suffer? This question is of importance to you as you are rather aware that certain religious fanatics (poor idiots they are, they have a real jewel and fail to recognize its value) are causing so much suffering to many many poor innocent souls, like you and your loved ones, causing you so much anguish and indignance.

Of course, it's not only religious fanatics that cause suffering. Anger, domestic and neighborhood violence, extremes of political endeavor, theft, harsh words, negligence, even disrespect can cause anguish and pain. So can our worry about our uncertain future (especially when idiots appear to be stuffing everything up for everybody).

I would like to see religious fanatics get a planet of their own so they can all murder each other in eternal spiritual bliss, happily lifetime after lifetime (unfortunately that's beyond our control), while the rest of us can get on with the job of learning to live together and to love without conditions.

So you see, you will have to answer so many questions to your own satisfaction and being intelligent, I'm sure you'll do well. Time to begin a journey of self exploration Foub old soul. You are not what you think you are.

Have a nice life!
Your well wisher.
t3

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